TRANSCRIPT FROM THE INTERVIEW WITH ALEXANDRIA JOY (AJ) CEO OF UQ POWER
AJ is a Thought Leader on Organisational Culture Transformation. It was an honour to be interviewed on her Podcast
Alexandria Joy (AJ): Thought Leader on Organisation Culture Transformation
Below is a transcript of the podcast interview with AJ on her UQ Power program. The original podcast can be found here:
https://www.uqpower.com.au/podcast/spotlight-on-david-wayne-from-geek-to-guru
AJ: Hi and welcome to another episode of "The Theatre of U”, a show that's all about celebrating people who have rocking their "UQ". Thanks for joining me again, I'm AJ and it's awesome for you to lend your ears to us. So today I have a very special guest, a super genuine nice guy and that's David Wayne. David, are you there?
DW: I'm here AJ, thank you, nice to be with a super genuine nice girl.
AJ: Haha, and you're calling in from where today, Sydney somewhere or...
DW: Today, I'm in Sydney. Yeah.
AJ: Beautiful, awesome. So, David is someone who has been in management roles for many years and his face defies that. But I know that he has like me been a bit of a corporate refugee and he worked in the corporate world, in large global technical organizations and eventually, I guess, saw the light in some ways, and decided to depart ways with that and start his own consultancy. And he's been running that for many, many moons, and he's run more than a thousand workshops with more than 10,000 managers and leaders in six countries. So he is a well-travelled, well-read, well lead man. And I guess he specializes mostly in technically-minded people and often introverts or the quiet achievers, and I'm really happy to say that, I'm a bit of an omnivert, so I swing between the two. But I've noticed more and more a bit of growth, since the book "Quiet", came out, about those quiet achievers and introverts and how valuable these two have introverted leaders in the workplace as well. So, David, why don't you start by telling us a little bit about what it is that made you leave corporate world in the first place and how are you working with these quiet achievers?
DW: Well, I guess I went into the corporate world to make my mother happy. A lot of us, we sort of wanted to what would make our parents happy and I thought that was something I had to do. I'm in my 50s, so you know, I'm a first-generation Australian, my grandparents came here in the 50s from Poland and Polish was actually my first language. I remember growing up in a Polish household, everyone's speaking Polish, visiting all the families speaking Polish and I used to hear these people on the street speaking this strange language and I used to think they were foreigners. They were Australian speaking English.
AJ: And so...
DW: So, I grew up with that, as a first-generation Australian of migrants that you know, go to school and study and get a good job and be there for a long time and you'll be fine. So I wanted to make my parents happy.
AJ: Yeah.
DW: And so I followed that and I did that for about 16 years and realized that making them happy was making me unhappy.
AJ: Miserable, how much does that, because there are so many Australians, well we all are essentially unless we're first Nations people we are all in some way migrants who have come here. How does that Polish heritage still impact on how you operate today?
DW: Well, personally, I'm still working through my weight loss program, because everything in Poland is designed to get you through harsh winters you know.
AJ: Yes.
DW: Even the brain is fried.
AJ: Oh wow.
DW: So that's had a lifelong impact on me trying to take care of my health and overcome that programming. But I think what it did is, Poland is not known as a high achieving culture and if you look in Europe, what the Polish people are well known for, are the industrious people who work with their hands.
AJ: Hmm.
DW: So the second largest Polish city in the world, outside of the capital, Warsaw is London.
AJ: Right.
DW: Right. So I don't know if that's going to change after Brexit, but...
AJ: Yeah.
DW: The second loss, the second largest number of people are Polish people in the world live in London.
AJ: Wow.
DW: And what they are known for, they're the people who will come and fix your plumbing and your drywall, and your roof and your gardens. None of you know, I don't know how many of them are licensed to do that but they'll do it well because they work well with their hands and they'll be cheap.
AJ: Yeah.
DW: And that's what they're known for. So I guess...
AJ: It's interesting, I went to school with a couple of Polish girls beautiful girls, Dorota and Agarda, hello, you guys, both of them went into fashion and design and some of those industries. But I remember at school, they were quite handy and even going to their house, I was fascinated by all the plates on the wall and I think their father was in the trades as well. So, it's interesting you've gone into more of, I guess you would say an intellectual space. How did that transition after sixteen years ago? And how did your mom take that?
DW: So I don't know whether my dad was happy that I didn't go into the trades and as you pointed out, I'm probably a little bit more of a thinker than I am work with my hands. So I guess that came about because after school, being a logical left-brain thinker, I sort of went into Project Management and got my first project management job in a sort of small publishing company, publishing services company. And I think one of the things that defines me is, yes, I'm an introvert and I know that's hard to believe, considering for half of my work life, you know, so I've spent 16 years in the corporate world, but the last 16 years I've spent speaking in front of groups of people, whether it's ten or a thousand, you wouldn't thoroughly say, "Oh, yeah, well, you must be an introvert".
AJ: Hmm.
DW: And I think what has come out of that is my understanding of what it takes for the quiet to achieve. When we talk about the quiet achievers that's actually a bit of an anomaly, because it's not usually the quiet people we consider to be achievers. And the biggest challenge, I think for the quiet is how do you get to achieve in a world that is increasingly recognizing that you've got to be loud to be recognized?
AJ: Well, [cross talking 08:30] you've got to be...
DW: Quiet [Unintelligible 08:35].
AJ: Yeah or if there are they have not snapping photos…
DW: Putting on a show.
AJ: And putting them on Instagram…
DW: Yeah.
AJ: And you are right, we are in a totally attention driven society where attention wins. It’s not about how smart or how clever, or how good you are, it’s about how much eyeball have I managed to gather, how much attention do I get and yet in practice and in my work, I still come across quite a lot of people who are doing deep work in a quiet way and still making ripple effects. So, you obviously found a way to that and I find it interesting, that you can do that and still stand on a stage and speak and I know I’m the same, you put on your performance hat and get into that mode. So is that what you do? Do you need lots of run-ups to prepare for something or do need lots of downtime after to re-coop your energy?
DW: It's an interesting question because it's been 15 years. It's very easy if someone's been a professional at something for 15 years to forget a little bit what it was like in their rookie year.
AJ: Hmmm, hmmm.
DW: And so now because I've done it a thousand times, I've done my ten thousand hours. I've done it with ten thousand people, it's very easy for me to sort of feel like it's natural. But it took me and I think if I'd go back to my corporate work, so when I started in Project Management, I think one thing I've had going for me and if I have to say what it is, that allowed me to overcome my natural tendency to be not blowing my own trumpet, that I've been daring. I think one thing that has allowed me to not sort of be limited, by me not being the loud one in the room is that I'm prepared to make a stand for what I feel to be right and to dare to stand up for what I think should be done. Because I'm introverted, and a thinker and an analyst stuff, probably put sixteen times as thinking into much what I think should be done, than a lot of people who haven't, who are prepared to be loud without having done the thinking.
AJ: Yes.
DW: And so, for example, you know, when I got my first job as a Project Manager, and it was in the publishing industry, and I looked at who's the biggest publishing organization that does projects and there was a publishing division of News Limited, did their magazines called "PMP, Pacific Magazines in Poland". And so I thought, okay, well, if I'm going to do this one day, I'd like to go and work for them, that's who I'd love to work for.
AJ: Mm-hmm.
DW: And because, I guess one of my natural character traits is to be daring, I approached them, I sort of waited for them to advertise a job and I'm a young buck in my ways and I just rang them up. And I spoke to the Operations Director and said, "Can I just ask you, how do you find your Project Managers, when you've got projects going on and you need Project Managers, how do you find them? because I'd like to work for you one day", and he goes, "Well, usually we advertise" and back then it was Sydney Morning Herald…
AJ: Yeah.
DW: This is sort of the mid-90s.
AJ: Pre-internet jobs.
DW: Well, at that time, it was a 14.4 K Internet, so you were still getting the dial-up “Pshhhkkkkkkrrrrkakingkakingshchchchchcch” kind of thing if anyone remembers those days.
AJ: Oh yeah.
DW: So, and I said, “You know, we put ads in the Sydney Morning Herald and that's how we get them.”
And I go, “You know, alright, well, I'll keep a lookout for that because I'd love to come work for you.”
And he goes, “Why don't you come in? We don't have anything at the moment, but come in and have a chat.”
AJ: Great.
DW: Yeah. So I went in and had a chat with him and it all seemed to go well, and he goes, “Look, thanks for coming in, you know, if something comes up, we'll give you a buzz, will let you know.”
AJ: Yeah.
DW: I didn't really expect much, but I kept an eye in the papers and two weeks later, I got a call from him, saying, “Are you still interested in working with us”.
AJ: Yes.
DW: And I said, “Absolutely.”
And he goes, "Well, something's come up, come in".
AJ: Wow.
DW: So I came in, had an impromptu interview and within two weeks, I was working with them. What I did not know until much later, was about five months later, that I found out that after I came in and spoke to the Operations Director, they let one of their Project Managers go, because they felt he was underperforming.
AJ: Right.
DW: And brought me in to take his place.
AJ: Mm-hmm.
DW: And the guy they let go took my job at the place that I had left to take that one.
AJ: That's awesome; the universe has a sense of humour.
DW: Yeah. So, I started out with them as a Junior Project Manager working under someone else and again, because I like to analyze things, and I like to see where there are opportunities. And then because I'm a bit daring, I saw this opportunity, I don't imagine AJ, you know who a company called Blackwoods is?
AJ: I've heard of them. Yes.
DW: Yeah. So they’re the world's second-largest industrial parts supplier. The building that you're probably sitting in, everything from the screws that hold the timber frame together to the coffee, the replays drink, you could get from Blackwood’s, right. And they're an Australian company, they're owned by Wesfarmers. Lou also own Balance.
AJ: Yep.
DW: And so, the company I was working with, they won a project to redo the Blackwood’s catalogue. And you got to understand this was like the biggest project that, one, it was going to go to the Project Manager who...
AJ: Landed it.
DW: Well, who was their most Senior Project Manager who had the most experience because they wanted to keep this client happy. However, I wanted that opportunity, and so, what I did was I knew that the Senior Project Manager was a bit old fashioned and was not going to bring modern innovation into that opportunity, and so on, went into our design department and got them to mock up some pages of what I felt Blackwood’s catalogue could look like if we use more modern technology.
AJ: Yes
DW: And I'm with to the CEO, who I think I've only met once when I got hired. And I said, “Hey, I heard about that we won the Blackwood’s project and it sounds like a really exciting project, and I know that it's going to go to this person, obviously, they're the most senior experienced person. But I had some ideas and I went to design and I had the mock-up a couple of ideas and I just thought if they could be useful, I'd love to pass them on. If you can pass them on to the Project Manager, maybe they can find them helpful.” Who do you think got the project management job for them?
AJ: Yehey, you did.
DW: And, you know, I can tell a dozen stories like that in my career in my sixteen years that took me, I'm going to say pretty quickly, you know, from. So, you know, I got headhunted a number of times. So the Chief Technology Officer of that company left, to become the Chief Technology Officer of a global technology company and he took three people from that company with him, one of which was me.
AJ: Yeah.
DW: I mean, I remember him coming into my office and going, “David, I'm leaving.” And I was really sad because I work closely under him. He was a bit of a mentor for me and when he said that he was leaving, I was really, really upset and I said, “Leave I'm so sorry to hear that, I've loved working with you. I've been here for three years now and I don't know that I would have had the opportunities that I had if it wasn't for you.:
And he goes, "Don't be ridiculous, you're coming with me".
AJ: Love it.
DW: You know, we'll find something for you to do.
AJ: Yeah.
DW: And I think you know, this story, you know, I went from that company to another big American technology company and can I share one more sort of daring…
AJ: Yeah, please, there's a bit of a time.
DW: Yeah. So the company that I went to after that one, that Lee took me to was a big American document management and financial transactions company called Mobius. And I was there sort of helping them look at how they could expand in the Australian and New Zealand market, and their biggest competitor was IBM.
AJ: Mm-hmm.
DW: And we had lost every single deal that we'd ever gone up against IBM. If we were tendering for something and we saw that IBM also pitching we sort of thought, is this even worth it?
AJ: Right.
DW: And AJ, are you familiar with who SAP are?
AJ: I certainly am, most of my clients are in mining, manufacturing or health and uses SAP. Yes.
DW: One of the things that we did with Mobius, was SAP data archiving and I'm not going to bore your listeners know, going into the technology behind that. SAP costs about ten or twenty million to put it.
AJ: Yes.
DW: But what they don't tell the Chief Technology Officers and the CEOs is that back at that time in the late 90s, everything was archived on tapes. You know, imagine like an external hard drive size tape.
AJ: Yes.
DW: And so, companies initially there might have spent a half a million dollars on the robotic tape archives. But the next year, it doubled and it was a million dollars. And the next year after that, it doubled again, it was two million and year after that it was four million right, so this was not your budget.
AJ: Hmmm.
DW: And one of the biggest issues that SAP clients had was how do we archive this data. But we knew that we would lose every deal against IBM. So because I'm an analytical person, and I like to do research, and I like to solve problems, and I'm daring, so, I know what my strengths are, I tried to find a solution to that problem, that would be helpful to the market. And my clients and I found this little German company that all they did, the one thing they produced, one product, and it was an SAP data archiving piece of software.
AJ: Wow.
DW: They didn't have anyone in Australia distributing it.
AJ: Perfect.
DW: So, I contacted them and I said, “Look, Australia is a tiny market like it's 2% of the global market, we're not even worth you guys opening an office, you're just not going to make enough money selling your software in Australia. But if you let us be the”...
AJ: Distributor.
DW: Sold your software in Australia and New Zealand, well I can tell you is anything we sell, will tack your stuff onto it for free. So every SAP sale we do, you'll get one sale of your software, but you've got to make us the exclusive distributor, how's that sound? And they said, yes.
AJ: Awesome.
DW: What that did, is it let me then go to every single person who is spending millions and millions of dollars on...
AJ: Data.
DW: Data archiving. You have got this little piece of software, it eliminates the cost of data archiving. Whatever you spend this year, you're never going to have to spend that again, does that sound worthwhile, because it's at the moment, you're spending millions. And they came back and said absolutely, how much is it?
AJ: Of course.
DW: And I said, “It's free.”
And they go, “What do you mean? It's free? It's worth millions of dollars.”
AJ: Yeah.
DW: And I go on, “Oh, it's free…”
AJ: Without.
DW: If you are an SAP client of ours.
AJ: Right, yeah.
DW: And after that, we won every single deal against IBM.
AJ: Wow, they must have been scratching their heads.
DW: Well, they didn't scratch their heads for long because, within about six months, I got a phone call saying, “We're sick of losing business to you. Can you come and teach our business partners how to do Mobius?”
AJ: So that's the way the world works. What I love about
DW: That the world works. Yeah.
AJ: What I love about all of that is the tenacity is kind of backing yourself and doing those bold courageous moves. What advice would you give to someone who's up and coming and thinking about how to get ahead? What advice would you give to them now thinking back over all of those bold moves?
DW: So, I'm going to narrow who it is I'm answering that question for if that's okay.
AJ: Mm-hmm.
DW: Okay. The extroverted people who are already comfortable backing themselves and putting themselves forward, this answer isn't for them. This is for the people who know that they have got something valuable to offer and just know how to get it out there in a way that they're heard. And when I've thought about it, because when I left IBM partners in 2003 and started my own practice, and I thought about, how can I help people who are a talent in organizations, who have something to offer but aren't pulling themselves out there? What's missing? And when I've looked at what it is that you know, I'm going to refer back to you AJ actually, because I watched the video. you did have your lessons from Necker Island, right?
AJ: Oh, yeah, that's a while ago. Mm-hmm.
DW: I remember I'm a researcher and an analyst. So have done, are you right? And the fascinating thing when you look at that, you know, there, think about how many people outside of the world of business and finance and investing. How many people recognize the name Richard Branson and how many people realize the name, Warren Buffett?
AJ: Yes, loads and Richard Branson's quite an introvert himself.
DW: Yeah. Well, he doesn't express himself that way.
AJ: Yes, no.
DW: When you look in technology, you might be able to compare the successes, of the Steve Jobs and the Bill Gates's. It's “the Gates” for some reason, so you know, "the Gates", that quiet achiever, and it's "the Job's" you see putting himself out there. And so the way I'm going to answer that question is understanding what your values are. To first do that, you know, if someone's an analyst if someone's an introvert if someone's a left-brain thinker to take that microscope with which we see the world and turn off internally, to do the work to understand what is it that you value and believe in. And when I did that work on me, I recognized that there were three things about me that were my values. So one is I love helping people.
AJ: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
DW: The other one is I hate injustice.
AJ: Mm-hmm.
DW: Even the most tiny injustices send me mad.
AJ: Okay, yeah.
DW: I was having this conversation with them, so I've got two boys, 23 and 17 and I came across the 17-year-old at my favorite coffee shop with one of his friends who had parked outside the coffee shop in a no parking area. And whenever I go to my favorite coffee shop, there are always people often tradies who just parked outside right outside the coffee shop, because of the bus lane, right? And they just parked there because it's convenient, and they don't think about how much they are inconveniencing everyone else.
AJ: Yeah.
DW: And you cannot begin to imagine how my blood boils when I see these people parking cars at the front of this coffee shop. I just want to grab them by the lapels and go, "You selfish bastard” ...
AJ: Yeah, move your car.
DW: You have to not cross the road, there's a car parking station across the road.
AJ: Yeah.
DW: But to save you from not having to across the road, you will inconvenience hundreds of people and buses that have to go around you just so that you don't have to take fifteen extra steps to get a coffee.
AJ: Oh, I can hear your blood boiling.
DW: You can hear it right, can you imagine if you [cross-talking 27:47] injustices in the world right, if get that riled up over one parking for coffee.
AJ: Yes.
DW: So but you know, this comes from me having done that internal work of what are my values, what do I value? I get it. Injustice is one of them and I want to help people. So you can see how that sort of comes together to, you know, I look at the world, I look at the way the world and the business world works, and what is so clear to me is the injustice that you if you think about [unintelligible 28:24].
AJ: So, can I bring it back to the question of so how does someone who's wanting to be more bold and courageous in the workplace, if they have done the inner work like you have and understand their values, and what they believe, how do they then make those bold moves?
DW: Yeah, so I guess I'm moving to what is that I do with people. So you know, I run lots of workshops, and I work with executives and coach executives around the world and the first thing we do is we get them to do that same self-analysis. And I'm not suggesting that their values is going to come up as the same thing that you know what's important to them is helping people and they hate injustice and they want to be there...
AJ: Theirs will be unique.
DW: Yeah, there will be three, maybe four things that come up for them that they go, this is what's really important to me. The next step is to then look at who else in the organization in leadership positions, values those same things.
AJ: Great.
DW: And to then use that to actually create those relationships on that common ground.
AJ: Right. Great and actually, I’m working with someone at the moment who's a CEO and needs to influence their board. And I think that's great advice for them is to think about their values because there are mismatch for some of the people on the board in some ways, and so they're finding that challenging. But if they looked for who else believes that, and believes what I believe and I think that's what Simon Sinek does so well in his start with why and all of that sort of thing and he really even got his first book deal that way by going, “who else believes what I believe” and he never talked about his own skills or what he could do or anything like that. He just talked about what he believed in and then people who resonated with that same belief were then more likely to champion him, hire him, all those sorts of things. So that's really great tips for people listening and that are going, how do I get that influence? Find people hear what you believe. Yeah.
DW: And something I often say in our workshops, is one thing in common can overcome 99 differences.
AJ: Yes.
DW: What we spend 99% of our time looking at and being worried about the differences.
AJ: Absolutely, absolutely.
DW: If we spent 99% of our time looking at what we have in common, any global leaders of countries out there listening to this hint, hint. If we spent 99% of our time looking at what we have the 1% of things we have in common, if not more 99% of our conflicts, I think would almost disappear.
AJ: Absolutely. They'd melt away because we are about one, if only people would understand what you do on the micro happens on the macro. Alright, so I'm going to switch gears on us David and I have it in front of me my deck of cards they called the cards for uniqueness. They're against the ordinary and they are available on our website, eqpower.com.au/cards and loads of people buy them, use them for their family, for team building exercises. The question of the day or the week, and I've even heard of them being used to the wedding so they go. So, it's your chance to be in the spotlight, David and answer five questions from the cards for uniqueness, so can you give me your five numbers?
DW: I will give you my five numbers, but just as you things up, AJ, I'm going to switch things up on you.
AJ: Okay, cool.
DW: I have in my hands a little book called "Daily Optimism".
AJ: Ah, lovely.
DW: And I'm gonna get you to tell me a number, I will give you my five afterwards. I'm going to get you to give me a number, and I look at this is 63 of these.
AJ: Yeah.
DW: They start at page twelve, so you're going to give me a number between 12 and 3. I'm going to tell you one of your own optimism and you're going to tell me the story of that one.
AJ: Oh, nice. Okay, let's go number 45.
DW: Forty-five, let’s look at days, "Daily Optimism" book if you don't have this one, go get it people listening.
AJ: It's very cute.
DW: Forty-five says, "The secret of your future is hidden in your daily routine".
AJ: Hmm.
DW: Tell me, AJ, what your daily routine tells us about what secret gets revealed about your future from your daily routine?
AJ: Oh yeah, I love it. My daily practice as I call it is probably the most important bedrock of my entire life. And it hasn't always been but it is now and has been for the past maybe five or six years. So my daily routine is a walk or run in the morning, it is play with my dog and walk with him, and then I do some brief yoga. So I have a daily practice, I have some thyroid health issues or have had in the past and so I have a daily practice that helps switch on my thyroid and make it work better and then meditation. And even if I'm traveling, if I'm somewhere where I can't get a walk-in, I'll still do my yoga stretches and poses and my meditation and probably the most important thing for me is that connection. So, I very much as the company name, Yuki Power is all about unified power. I believe that in order to be a full expression of myself and show up as fully as I can each day, I need to make sure I am coherent, and in full alignment. So every day my meditation practice is about that alignment. Yeah, so that's the secret of my future is hopefully one of more and more alignment connection with self-universe, earth, whatever you call it. Hmm.
DW: Okay, cool. That's okay, so you answered mine and I'll answer your numbers I've chosen...
AJ: Uh-huh.
DW: Are three.
AJ: Hmmm.
DW: 7.
AJ: 7.
DW: 18, 19 and 27.
AJ: 3,7, 18, 19 and 27 and I'm thinking they could be birthdays or ages or something like that because they're all under the amount that's in a calendar. Alright, now question number three are you ready?
DW: I'm going to after we've done these AJ, I'm going to tell you how I chose those numbers.
AJ: I'm sure there is some kind of logic behind that my friend. I bet it.
DW: It will show you how much of an analytical thinker you are.
AJ: Thinker you are, they were random numbers pulled out of the air. Okay, question number...
DW: [Unintelligible 35:59].
AJ: Least random. Yes
DW: Yeah.
AJ: This is a goody, this is, what is the best surprise you've ever received?
DW: It was probably a tough one, but I'll tell you one of the most recent ones. So I celebrated my 50th birthday recently...
AJ: Hmm-mm.
DW: And I'm not a possession collector, I’m an experienced collector.
AJ: Mm-hmm.
DW: And so, I against my wife's greatest upset said I didn't want anything. any big fuss made I didn't want a big gift.
AJ: Yeah.
DW: I didn't want to party, I didn't want money spent. Let's just do something extravagant together.
AJ: Nice.
DW: As a family, let's do some amazing experience. What she did is she organized for us to go to an amazing dinner in the city, and then go out for drinks at the Opera Bar.
AJ: Oh, nice.
DW: And what was waiting for me at the Opera bar, were a dozen or more of my closest friends from all around Australia and then she lie in for us to spend the night together.
AJ: Wow, that's beautiful. She's a keeper.
DW: Yeah, she is a keeper.
AJ: Awesome surprise, that's lovely and especially when it's dear friends that make the difference, right? It makes it a little different.
DW: Yes. yes...
AJ: Alright, are you ready for the next one? Question seven is, what does life want from you?
DW: I think what it wants from me is to use the things that I've found to overcome my fears and limitations to help others do the same.
AJ: Hmm-mmm nice. I like that just as it is.
DW: Yeah.
AJ: And it sounds like you're doing that in lots of ways every day.
DW: Yeah.
AJ: So, question 18 was your next one, and it's possibly an extension of that question. And it is what's your why?
DW: Yeah, it sort of is an extension of the last question. But when I think about that, and you talk about Simon Sinek having why at the center and sort of I talked before about having done the sort of internal analysis stuff and there's a, do you know the movie "A Beautiful Mind"?
AJ: I have heard of it, but I'm not a huge movie buff, so I haven't seen it, I have to admit, but I've heard all about it. Yeah.
DW: Yes, it's Russell Crowe plays a mathematics professor and sort of a syndrome throughout in the movie throughout his life, he meets these different people, he meets a roommate at college and roommates niece and he gets approached by a CIA operative to go and work for the government.
AJ: Mm-hmm.
DW: What we find out halfway through the movie is that all of these key characters in his life, the sort of voices that he's been allowing to lead him, they're all imagined. They're not real, they're part of his schizophrenic personality.
AJ: Mm-hmm.
DW: But they are the voices that have beguiled his decisions in life.
AJ: Right.
DW: They're not real.
AJ: So they are like imaginary friends that he's very close to.
DW: Yeah, and when I think about my why, and this links to my answer, with this previous one, I get the voices in my head that I've grown as friends are trying to protect me. Those imaginary voices that we created that are telling us all you know, don't raise your voice, don't make... attract any attention.
AJ: Stand out.
DW: Don't argue with someone's opinion, don't put yourself all of those voices in our heads. We created those to protect us from our experiences of the world. But they're not real.
AJ: Yeah.
DW: And my why is to take the work that I've done in helping myself overcome those voices in my head, that were created to try to protect me from being hurt in the world and the people who I've seen in hundreds of organizations who have their own voices telling them things that hold them back.
AJ: Hmmm.
DW: My "why" is to help those people realize those voices aren't real. That they were created to try to protect them from being hurt and that it's in recognizing that those voices aren't real and choosing to do what they want to do anyway is a real value is that's my why.
AJ: Wow. Awesome, I look forward to seeing that unfold as it does as it will, interesting analogy. Thank you. Alright, question 19, you're almost there is what are you excited or curious about?
DW: I'm in the midst of overcoming my next set of voices, the people that you have on this and I'm honoured and excited to have been invited onto this, I look at the people that you've had on here, and again those voices in my head despite anything I might have done well in my life, those voices when I go, geez, look at the people that she's spoken to. Look at what she's done. Who am I, to go on to this podcast and be asked questions and share it, Who am I?
AJ: Yeah.
DW: On a voice. And I guess the thing I’m most excited about is I'm publishing a book next year.
AJ: Yeah.
DW: And you can imagine when someone does something like that, you know, though, to overcome those who do you think are voices, to put stuff out there in such a public sphere is going to take a fair bit of courage.
AJ: Right.
DW: To go out. I'm excited about overcoming the voices that I'm gonna have to overcome to allow me to do that. But the thing that is going to drive me to do that, which is the same thing that's driven me to do what I've been doing for the last fifteen years, is thinking about who it's going to help.
AJ: Who is it going to help.
DW: And the people, the injustices it might overcome and because my backgrounds in technical organizations and a lot of people who are the quiet achievers, and the introverts come from technically minded roles, that's who it's aimed at. You want to know the name?
AJ: I want you to reveal it. Yeah, cause I think it's great.
DW: It's a working title and I'm open to people making other suggestions. The current working title is "From Geek to Guru".
AJ: And is that more about you and your path or more about how people who would associate with the geek's label.
DW: Yes.
AJ: Yeah, right.
DW: So it's about how technically minded people can become inspirational leaders.
AJ: Fabulous, fabulous. Yeah, love it. Oh, well there you go, people, if you've got feedback for David, make sure you pop something in the show notes or contact him, "From Geek to Guru" is the title. Alright, question 27, you're lucky last one and it is, what's your best party trick?
DW: Huh? Okay, I learned this party trick in 1988.
AJ: Oh, gosh, that's specific.
DW: It is. Do you remember what 1988 is significant for in Australia’s history?
AJ: It was our bicentenary.
DW: It was the bicentenary and maybe in the daring person that I am, as part of the bicentenary celebrations, there was an ad in the Street Magazines of the time remember, I was...
AJ: Yeah.
DW: In my twenties, it was asking for people who wanted to participate in the Bicentenaries celebrations that wanted to learn how to fire breathe.
AJ: Oh, wow.
DW: And so what they did is they had hundreds of people come and on the Saturday we were taught the technique using water. And then 88 of us, because it was 1988.
AJ: Yes.
DW: Eighty-eight of us were chosen to do a fire breathing performance synchronized to music on the steps of the Opera House.
AJ: Oh my gosh.
DW: So I learned how to fire breathe and to fire swallow as part of that group and so whenever friends of mine have a party, they ask me to bring my fire breathing gear, and I put on fire breathing performance for them.
AJ: Fantastic and I have to ask then, for the 50th the Opera bar did you happen to breathe any fire?
DW: Yeah, well, I didn't know that event was happening.
AJ: It was a surprise.
DW: Surprise, but what was my best surprise.
AJ: Yeah.
DW: If I'd have known I might have brought my gear along.
AJ: You might have had it stacked in your backpack, awesome, well, that's certainly something unique that I did not know about you. I'm glad you shared. Now before we go and you share website and how people can get in touch with you or find out more and keep an eye on the "From Geek to Guru" when it gets ready to get published, how was it that you chose your numbers? Come on show us, show us your thought process.
DW: Oh, I'm a little scared to confess this actually, but it will give your listeners an insight into how introverted, technically minded, left-brain logical people, think.
AJ: Hmm-mm.
DW: I listened to all of your other podcasts.
AJ: No.
DW: And wrote down all the questions I wanted to be asked.
AJ: Oh no, oh my goodness. Well, thank you, thank you for the ratings that you've obviously given the show, I'll have to go and check the numbers and see if we've gone up. [Unintelligible 47:39]Oh, my goodness, you... I should have just sent you a pack, would have saved you a whole lot of research. Oh, my goodness.
DW: Oh but I love the research see, that's the problem.
AJ: Yes.
DW: I get stuck in the research.
AJ: And you got to listen to some amazing other people who've I chatted to.
DW: Amazing.
AJ: There you go, and now someone else who's technically minded introvert, quiet achiever in future is going to listen to yours while they're picking numbers.
DW: Yeah.
AJ: And go, hey, that's a good idea. Well, thank you and thank you for that insight, which flies in the face of how I as a big picture would person would do things, because I certainly would go, great, I don't have to do any research. I can just get on and riff with it, so I love that, I love having insights with people and I love that even though you've researched it, your answers are still totally unique, which is what this podcast show is all about is how humans are fascinating. We're unique, we all have strengths and skills that we bring to the planet, in transforming humanity and making the world a better place to live. And so for people who are interested in finding out more about, "From Geeks to Guru", keeping in touch or finding you, I know you're on LinkedIn, where else can they find David Wayne?
DW: I think the easiest way is to go to davidwayne.com.au, and you'll find lots of tools, their blogs and templates and tutorials and stuff about finding your voice and the way I think about it is it's about quiet achievers finding their voice.
AJ: Yeah.
DW: And so there'll be lots and lots of tools there to do that and if you have any questions, you'll be able to get in touch with me on the links from that.
AJ: Beautiful, well, thank you for speaking loudly and proudly today on "The Theater of U". It's been a joy and a delight and I look forward to connecting again with you in the new year. And for everyone who's listening, thanks for tuning in and lending us a bit of your attention and your ears today, I hope you found some interesting points there. I know for me, I'm going to be sharing the whole idea of finding something common with other people to get on the same page and to influence with some of my clients. So, thanks for that, David, to everyone else, have a great day. Bye for now.
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